Investor in the Wilderness - Latest Comments in Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

Thom — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 00:36:53 -0000

Being a card carrying member of the North American Marlon Brando Look A-likes, I have my concerns...

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

ironcross11 — Sun, 21 Sep 2008 01:12:39 -0000

Thom, trying to teach these socialists and whiners about the free market is like teaching a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and annoys the pig.

At this point, I say If the government steps in to attempt to stem the bleeding with taxpayer money who the hell cares. It's a better use than dumping $$$ into failing public schools. We have run up 11 trillion dollars in debt feeding welfare babies so they could grow up and have more welfare babies.

Big Earners pay 80% of the Income tax anyway. Anyone that knows anything about the tax code knows the rich are going to pay for this buyout and they will benefit from it the most. But everyone will benefit. The wage slaves pay Social Security and Medicare but those programs cost more than they take in.

As for the rest of the tin foil hat crowd, you'll make no progress teaching them. Their panties are in a twist that the FBI can trace them using public library computers to publish Anti-American propaganda and view NAMBLA material.

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

Thom — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:01:44 -0000

What I love most is you express this hatred for vicious lies and the spreading of rumors yet there you are doing the same thing about Zack and everybody who shorts. Do you have any proof that Zack spread lies or in any way tried to manipulate the market or do you just "feel" that he did? In so doing you have become that which you claim to hate - a fear monger who distorts reality for your own needs. Unless you can come up with proof that Zack or anybody else here is involved in illicit activity then it is you who are guilty of "the demise of decency , integrity , honesty and respect." I don't know what your motives are. Is it to lower Zack's readership? Do you want to "take Zack down" through the dissemination of lies and inuendo by lowering his readership so that his click value lowers to a point that he can no longer sustain the site? Or perhaps you are just so full of blind altrulism that you feel it is justified to slander Zack to save people from themselves and avert their eyes to the evil ways of "shorting" Is this your own version of Reefer Madness?

You have generalized all people who short into criminals and therefore lack credibility. You also give the generic answer of "invest" in a good company in a bear market and you will magically make money. I know, trust and love Apple but even if Steve-O walked on water, the lake is drying up. no company is an island and consumer dependent company like Apple will experience a slowdown. If the pain was only being felt by America then it has a fighting chance, better than most I might add, but this is a global disease. Apple will probably move up for a bit like every other company out there from this Socialist bailout but it's perfume on a pig. Nearly 1 Trillion dollars is being injected into the system further de-valuing the dollar and we have given sick ailing companies a stay of execution when they should've been put on an ice flow and sent out to sea.

Like I said, I gave examples, ticker symbols and actual strategies that have handily beaten the market in Bull and Bear times. Stop being lazy and give me solid moves that have made you money in these troubled times, don't be selfish now. Sounds to me like you only make money in Bull markets, but then again only an idiot loses in an up market, the truly savy and "intelligent investor" makes money in a Bear market. Being only comfortable being long is fine though limited. But if you really believe in Apple's ability to perform beyond the abilities of the economy then you should be hugging every short seller you meet because they are giving you an unprecidented chance of getting more shares at a lower price. If you don't have the $ to buy more shares and are fully invested then you know jack about portfolio management. I don't know this, I'm not stating this as a fact, it's just a casual observation.

If you feel that strait out short is market manipulation then you must feel that flat out going long is the same. After all, if you buy enough stock you reduce the available supply and create demand thereby raising the price - Scandalous! When you short a stock you are putting it back into the open market thereby increasing supply and if the demand doesn't match and/or exceed the supply, the price falls - Evil!

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

ruby tuesday — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:55:34 -0000

secret formula is simply buying into a company you know, understand and trust. Doing your homework is essential - but that is really putting your money where your mouth is. May sound naive but thats investing which props up , supports and shares in rewards. Shorting has taken a bad turn and has attracted greedy liars and fear mongers that will do anything to sure up their bets. There are still investors that have been trying to accumulate decent size investments over years and are truly LONG. They work hard and save to invest and grow their positions in companies they believe deserve investment and will reap them rewards. You don't have a clue do you?

Hedging your best in a bear market is fair - but not when manipulate the news to spread fear and panic which brings them a quick dishonest windfall. Since you bring hitler into the conversation. He also spread malicious rumors to incite and ignite ignorant masses into hysteria.

Yes, you are right about some of your views on shorting and you freely admit ( I think thats you anyway) that you just follow the big guys...it's just like a snowball. First the recycling of SEC investigation Jobs rumors, then the 3G iphone bad chip story, then the cancer story...etc...Following the big guys means - Monkey say Monkey do. Fundies will do anything too to show their stats.

Technology has provided a means and podium which is indiscriminately used to manipulate and disseminate bogus news. So called reporters and writers need to have some professional responsibility and safeguard their freedoms by exercising discretion.

I'm not crying over anything but the demise of decency , integrity , honesty and respect. I have no agenda and am open to anything. Manipulation and selfishness are bad and this last week has proved what they can lead to.

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

Thom — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:37:14 -0000

You really don't have a clue, do you? NOTHING is more risky than shorting a stock! If you go long @ $10 and the company goes bust all you lose is $10. If you short @ $10 and the company hits it huge and goes to $90 you lose $80. The downside to shorting is infinite! Smart $ has tighter stops when shorting because of this crazy little fact.

Last chance, give me an example of how you would make $ going long in a declining market while staying in the same sector. Hell, how would you insure your gains without exposing yourself to capital gains?

I took the time and effort to give you a legitimate, ethical way of using shorts to make $ in a downtrending market and insure your gains while minimizing your exposure to the IRS. Your counter was "put your $ where your mouth is - invest" Do me and the readership the courtesy of enlightening us to your Bear Market Strategy. What do I "invest" in? Do you mean Dollar Cost Averaging? Take it from a MOTT, DCA has killed more Jews than Hitler and Stalin combined.

What it seems to me is you are pissed @ Institutions lying to the downside to make $ (seems like you are ok with it if it helps the longs though I could be wrong). That's fine, it's wrong and illegal and the SEC is criminal in their negligence for enforcing current laws and regulations. I lost $20k on the Steve Jobs cancer BS and was pissed but I didn't cry over it and lash out at my fellow civilian investor/trader. I used my head and recovered and took opportunities as I saw them, shit happens - write your congressperson.

It seems to me like you owe Zack an apology, he isn't a fundie nor does he collude with them. Your accusations have as much validity as Eric Savitz's regular bs. For me, I just want your secret formula for going long in a Bear Market and making money, otherwise your permanent silence will do.

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

ruby tuesday — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:11:51 -0000

The financial environment is polluted with malicious hype created and perpetuated by hedge funds managers that need to make their bets stick at any price. The internet is a good tool to disseminate these malicious or spun stories to effect and influence naive stockholders. Shorting then turns into a "mission" . If there was more at risk by betting against a stock , then maybe a lot of this volatility would disappear. Agree on naked shorts. Agree on the up- tick rule too.

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

Thom — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:19:44 -0000

So you bought your house 100% cash? Fantastic! There is NOTHING wrong with credit as long as you have the ability to pay it back and the honest intention. Nothing illegal or immoral about that.

You still fail to address any of my questions and have provided ZERO insight into how an exchange market works and how to profit legally and ethically from it. Therefore you are a troll.

btw - when I buy puts, real money gets taken from my account.

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

ruby tuesday — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:09:10 -0000

it's simple- invest. Put your money EXACTLY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS. In other words don't buy on credit - that way you are counting on someone to front you money or shares with a promise to pay back. that's bullshit. you got money you earned - risk it by investing it.

What don't you understand? maybe a rumor to your lender that you have cancer and aren't good for your collateral will change the picture?.....yeah yeah, don't get literal on this - you know what I'm saying.

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

Thom — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:32:24 -0000

Still failed to answer and what lies were disseminated by anyone here? I know Zack has always been positive on Apple as a company, his concerns have been about the economy and financial environment. Was it wrong to short housing stocks? Was it the shorting that caused the sub-prime woes? Is it proper to speculate a stock up? Is it ok to spread rumors about hot new products that have no factual basis to exist to run a stock price higher and are you a pig to capitalize on that? LONG and LIE?

It's people like Ruby and Tunkey that will always loose. You fail to use all the available tools and choose to blame others for their loses rather than coming to terms with a situation and using it to their advantage. This goes for all aspects of life, not just the Markets. Nothing anybody here did was illegal or immoral just opportunistic. Just as it's opportunistic to see AAPL at a price that is far too low, buying calls and then hoping the Government bails out the losers who deserve to honestly to drown and riding the false wave up. But I guess that's OK in your book.

And I keep seeing this "other options existed" but no examples are given. Should a wise investor put their $ in a Money Market instead of taking advantage of a deteriorating market? Oh, wait. MM's broke the buck so that was a sucker's bet. How about Muni's? But AAA rated communities are declaring bk so that's a loss too. Hmmmm, looks like the only way to make "proper" money according to you guys is to have the Government bail you out, sad.

For the record, I've been in cash for my trading account for a couple of months now, and am 50%cash and otherwise long in my family's IRAs with solid dividend paying companies that are well diversified. I am up 63% in my trading acct and 19 and 27% in the IRA's by going both long AND short in various companies including AAPL, CHK, WFT, CLF, POT and others. I have lost plenty of money and I have made plenty of money and the one thing I know is you don't fight the tape and cry to your Congressperson. You use whatever means are legally available to you instead of using the CAPS key to make up for your lack of knowledge or ability.

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

Zach Bass — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:47:39 -0000

You've got it wrong Tunkey. I take short positions when required to hedge or play a downtrend, but I don't do NAKED shorts. So you're completely mistaken about me. Either that or you have a fundamental misunderstanding of shorting or buying puts.

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

ruby tuesday — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:38:32 -0000

Tunkey is right: OPTIONS ALWAYS EXISTED - YOUR BREED OF SHORT SELLERS JUST FUCKED IT UP FOR EVERYONE BY ABUSING IT TO DEATH BY INITIATING MALICIOUS LIES TO MOVE STOCK TO YOUR DESIRED RESULTS.

You assholes aren't playing straight - you SHORT AND DISTORT to make your gains- Thats the problem .

Shortsellers of the new breed disseminate lies panic and innuendo to drive the stocks down. The problem is they do this with little risk and by joint effort which may be considered a conspiring effort.....

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

Thom — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:51:26 -0000

I'm just curious about all these Muckity Mucks here screaming against short selling. Do any of you understand the proper functioning of a free flowing exchange market? Hedging? Risk Control? Do any of you guys own car insurance? Life insurance? I'm against NAKED shorting and am happy if the uptick rule gets brought back but outright banning of shorting is preposterous. If you own 10k shares of AAPL with a cost basis of $115 and it gets to $180 but looks like it's sliding and it's still under 12 months, how do you protect your gains with out risking full Cap Gains taxes with out being able to short? Or is this concept too advanced? If you bail @ 180 then you are looking @ $650k fully taxable. If you shorted 2k worth of AAPL @ 180 and over the course of 4 weeks it drops to 160 but it finds some legs and you cover then you have $40k of fully taxable gains, still have your original "investment" and can use the proceeds to add more shares to you portfolio or diversify.

It's also insane to think that anybody on this forum has the financial ability to take down a stock, that's wishful thinking. There are only a handful of individuals in the entire world who have that capital. Even if we combine all the individual investors on ALL the boards we could only drop or add the price of a large cap like AAPL for one day. It's institutional money, Mutual Funds, Pension funds that make the moves and their clients. Wake up. We play by their rules and in their court. The intelligent individual investor is trying to ride the coat tails of the big boys and get out when they've made a healthy profit, no matter what the direction. If you truely believe companies trade solely on their fundamentals then the whole concept of forward earnings should be scrapped. Stocks and Corporate Bonds should only reflect a company's current value and earnings, period. Anything else is gambling - oh wait-that's what we ARE doing. If you "invest" in a large cap company that doesn't pay a dividend then you are a fool. You trade companies like Appl. If you got in while it was mid cap or even small cap that fine but it should be a very small part of your porfolio and you buy PUTS or shorts to protect your gains but all you whiners out there that cry against the evil shorters don't want that. Is it only ok to short bad companies? Who gets to determine that? Does the SEC have to put out a "shortable" list. Wouldn't that be a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Again, NAKED shorting is supposed to be illegal except in very rare circumstances but should be out right banned and enforced. The up-tick rule should be brought back, it worked fine, it wasn't broken so why fix it. Otherwise insurance is a positive thing.

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

tao jones — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 13:49:42 -0000

its pretty clear in the constitution that the government is to support itself with tariffs and taxes . now they have their hand in the pockets of free enterprise expecting a profit for the taxpayers for their trouble. the bush family has a history of screwing up the banking system George over achiever that he is is going for all the marbles state partnerships (and control) of insurance ,mortgage bankers and brokerage houses. setting the rules and protecting everybody's interest but the common shareholder who after all only put money he earned into the stocks.
i am holding some freddy mac common shares and i cant wait till the class action starts
first it was the library cards then the phone records then the common stock . whose protecting me from Bush? the stacked supreme court ? the strangely silent head of the sec? this has been a coup and a rape of the treasury

the fed is a private institution NOT PART OF THE GOVERNMENT our treasury stepping in is a different animal
zach is right this is socialism at its finest

once again i will post the quote that scares me the most because it is the play book this administration is using Over and over and like the author says it is easy and it works the same in any country

“ It is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, a parliament or
a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
Hermann Goering, Nuremberg Trials

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

ruby tuesday — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:26:52 -0000

Scum indeed!

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

marcos — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:25:07 -0000

First of all, Wall St. should get used to wedgies since no one will be walking around in shorts. Banning shorts, why?
Second, how am I supposed to feel good about putting my money in CitiBank, Wacovia, Wamu and a host of others who haven't yet been taken to the cleaners for their bum loans? What's happened now is just spot remover.
Third, what about all those highly leveraged derivatives tumbling? Does this new RTC cover this?
Finally, what about my home mortgage? I can't get one because I lost money in the stock market, or am part of the 25,000 that HP is going to layoff or because my lender just won't lend to anyone because my neighbor's house is dropping in value. Why is my house being marked to market when I am not a seller?

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

TUNKEY — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:23:25 -0000

ZACH

GET A JOB YOU PARASITE. I BET YOU DON'T QUALIFY TO EVEN WIPE TOILETS.

OPTIONS ALWAYS EXISTED - YOUR BREED OF SHORT SELLERS JUST FUCKED IT UP FOR EVERYONE BY ABUSING IT TO DEATH BY INITIATING MALICIOUS LIES TO MOVE STOCK TO YOUR DESIRED RESULTS.

YOU SHOULD AND PROBABLY WILL BE INVESTIGATED.

TUESDAY IS RIGHT - NO ONE SHOULD BACK UP YOUR BORROWING WITH "EFFECTIVE" CREDIT SO THAT YOU CAN GAMBLE YOUR "DEBT" TO PAY BACK THE LOAN. PUT YOUR HARD EARNED ( BET YOU DON'T HAVE ANY) CASH UP TO BACK UP YOUR BORROWING OF SHARES.

SCUM.

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

Franco — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:32:53 -0000

Finally taking your mask off. Just a short seller/basher that should be posting in the Yahoo board

By the way, Cox must definitely be fired!

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

SAm — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:06:34 -0000

Zach, as always you are on the money, no pun intended! Check out the Arlo Guthrie song, "I'm changing my name to
Chrysler" to at least have a little laugh at how pathetically our government bails out the big guys while leaving us little ones dangling in the wind. Guess if you're gonna fail you better do it spectacularly...

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

ruby tuesday — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 10:53:03 -0000

If you want to bet against a company - put your cash where your mouth is - BET A DOLLAR ANTI UP A DOLLAR.

YOU ASSHOLES BORROW TO BET THEN DISSEMINATE LIES TO AFFECT THE STOCK'S MOVEMENT . IF YOU FEEL SO MIGHTY PUT YOUR MONEY (IN FULL) WHERE YOUR MOUTHS ARE AT. YOU DON'RT DESERVE CREDIT TO BORROW A DIME AND BET .

I HOPE YOU ALL DROWN IN A SLOW PAINFUL SINKING

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

Zach Bass — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 10:43:49 -0000

Excuse me, but I barely lost a dime in this. I've recommended going cash to everyone here in the Wilderness. I'm not pissed about losing money, I'm pissed at the government interfering and basically turning the free markets into their political playground. We'll all suffer for it in the long run.

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

bill — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 10:37:50 -0000

You suck, and you got what you deserved, smartass.

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

Johnny — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 10:13:44 -0000

Bla, Bla, Bla ..... Dude under communism they nationalize
Company that are making money, Not the opposite.
Haven't you all been asking for no regulation. No oversight....the problem here is systematic and phylosofical.... Conservative and libertarian Have been denouncing for year goverment is the problem...let the market take care,,,, so What now?

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

Jack — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:18:34 -0000

You did not short banks-You shorted AAPL-A solid company.
You are a vulture who with other vultures-cost a lot of us money with your greed.

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

Joe — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:17:05 -0000

that's what you get when you shorted a great stock like Apple. Going to $90, huh? Not yet.

Re: Apple Investors Born in the USA Living Under Socialism

ruby tuesday — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:07:50 -0000

Halleluya. I hope you drown